Author Topic: Critque of the last loch style competition.  (Read 3827 times)

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Randy Paskall

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Sorry, but you weren't catching that fish anyway.....

Chris Puchniak

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Re: Critque of the last loch style competition.
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2014, 06:53:41 AM »
This was my response  (I think it was just a misinterpretations on a busy day on the water).  All it takes is ONE angler going too fast with his boat to cause an issue (whether it was a comp or recreational angler), and I am guessing that is what happened.  Or, I can fully understand that sometimes people get upset when they go fishing and find twice or thrice the number of boats on their favourite waters - immediately they get defensive - whether it is a club outing or competition.

But the onus is on us to make sure we are on good behavior though, imo.  If our group has 30 boats, we have to realize that as an organized group we have a large impact on our surroundings.  Anglers with faster boats have to be more cautious and follow the guidelines pointed out by the organizers. 

Bad behavior is not something that should be acceptable, and I participated in that event. If I had seen someone being rude to an anchored boat, I would have been saying something to them. As would the organizers of the event. I assure you, rude behavior is very rare and not tolerated (just like in recreational angling though, I guess there are bad incidences that occasionally happen between anglers).

Etiquette is something that all anglers have to be reminded of. Boat wakes is a concern when you have 30+ boats on a lake, and everyone (rec or comp anglers) should never throttle up until you are clear of other boats (anchored, trolling, or drifting) by a few hundred feet. Don't disrupt other anglers fishing, and keep the waves to a minimum. Our general rule is that you cannot go to WOT until you are in the center of the lake.

I am surprised that there were some incidences, for as Randy says, I know 90% of these guys, and bad ethics is something they don't tolerate either.


Sometimes in the loch-style comps boats do drift close to other anglers unintentionally. We aren't allowed to anchor or troll, and have to drift with the wind. Occasionally, as you might expect, the wind is darn unpredictable, and just when you think you are drifting safely by someone, it shifts and pushed you right at another anchored boat. In those cases, rather than firing up the motor and scaring the fish, I usually just say hello and apologize for drifting nearby, explaining the reason - hoping that suffices.

Something that also happens, and possibly causes some mixed reactions, is that most other recreational anglers fairly enough THINK we are anchored (like most boats) and don't realize we are drifting with the wind. So an angler pulls up close to us in their boat and anchors downwind maybe 250' away thinking he is a safe distance from another anchored boat. But, we are actually moving along at a good clip, and abruptly run into the back of the newly anchored boat unwillingly (coming much closer than desired). I am sure this causes some confusion when we have to start up and motor away. But that is just a simple misunderstanding of all parties not being fully aware of what the other boat is doing - which happens with anchored boats and trollers too.


Either way, intentional bad behavior is not acceptable by me, and I would be surprise if anything was intentional. Perhaps accidental misinterpretations?

I don't like to see anyone's day ruined when fishing!
I will fish anywhere and find beauty in it.

Don't be a Pessimist. Don't be an Optimist.  Be a Realist and change when you need to.

Chris Puchniak

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Re: Critque of the last loch style competition.
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2014, 06:56:06 AM »
Here was the original post - just putting it up so you have the full context:

While I previously have no opinion on competition fishing I am now sure I don't want to be a participant.

While I was on Tunkwa there were people practicing from Monday to Wednesday for this event and that was alright.

On Thursday there was the competition day. On this day I was continually bobbed by waves created by boats with big motors ( larger than 9.9H as is the maximum of this lake) zipping close by me in order to get back upwind for the drift.

A lot of them have no regards for any anchored boats. I was glared at giving me the impression that they thought I have no place on the lake where they are holding such an event.

As well, there was a suspicion that a participant have stolen some plastic part of a boat trailer from a permanent camping person.

All in all, I was not impressed.


While there is nothing new about anglers being upset with one another when sharing water (it happens all the time), people motoring fast on a waterway irrespective of the motor/speed restrictions is something I really dislike.  Please always keep an eye out for anglers going at excessive speeds, whether they are in a competition or not.

Not that anyone needs reminding of this, but good ethics is always worth re-stating, so motor slow in a crowd, take the least damaging path to get out from tight quarters, save the high speed for the middle of the lake, and keep in mind what YOUR high speed is relative to others on the water.  And it never hurts to wave an apology, or to let people know which way you are going when you need to motor close to them.  I think this should apply to every type of angler.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2014, 08:03:35 AM by Chris Puchniak »
I will fish anywhere and find beauty in it.

Don't be a Pessimist. Don't be an Optimist.  Be a Realist and change when you need to.

Rick Sodke

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Re: Critque of the last loch style competition.
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2014, 07:05:21 AM »
The original poster is not prone to exaggeration and would certainly know the difference between a competitive and recreational angler. I also expect that he would not be upset by the number of boats since he is more than familiar with fishing in crowded conditions.
Why were boats an outboard exceeding the Tunkwa 10hp limit allowed to compete?

Chris Puchniak

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Re: Critque of the last loch style competition.
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2014, 07:07:10 AM »
I don't think there were any boats with motors larger than 9.9 on the water.  ?
I will fish anywhere and find beauty in it.

Don't be a Pessimist. Don't be an Optimist.  Be a Realist and change when you need to.

Todd Oishi

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Re: Critque of the last loch style competition.
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2014, 07:46:57 AM »
Thanks for posting this Randy, and my sincerest graditude for the support in the discussion! The comment about stealing was completely over the top...

Just a reminder and notice for anyone if they did in fact have an over-sized motor. Boats with engines over 9.9hp are not be permitted on Tunkwa Lake, and thus, aren't permitted for the sessions that are held on Tunkwa Lake. Next year, all competitor's boats will have to be presented for inspection in order to ensure that they conform to this regulation.

Thanks,
Todd
« Last Edit: June 26, 2014, 09:01:04 AM by Todd Oishi »
For me, the quality of a trout is not measured in inches or pounds, but rather by the journey and circumstances that allowed our paths to cross...

Vance Whitley

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Re: Critque of the last loch style competition.
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2014, 09:20:49 AM »
I feel that this will always be an issue. :(
A big group shows up to someones favorite lake...   
Different fishing styles. Anchored vs trolling vs drifting...

Our group was out their training and encouraging and sharing with 7 youths the wonderful variety's and styles to flyfishing.
Our group has raised over $100,000 in the last 4 years and $30,000 just last year alone for B.C. Children's Hospital.

To insinuate that our group stole anything was an insult to our whole group. I would be willing to bet ALL my fishing gear that nobody from our group STOLE anything from anybody!!
« Last Edit: July 02, 2014, 06:47:16 AM by Todd Oishi »
All fishermen are liars except you and me,
and I'm not to sure about you... - unknown

Jim Trewin

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Re: Critque of the last loch style competition.
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2014, 12:46:44 PM »
I drive truck for a living and I can tell you without a doubt that people that are agrivated about something to the point they want to rant that their concerns are for the most part inflated beyond the truth, sometimes greatly so.   There where boats of all different sizes used in the comp and as such the wake and subsequent waves came in all different sizes.  As a fella that is in tune with wave size from using my belly boat extensively on waters that have a lot of boat traffic I can say that I did not see any boat acting outside what would be considered good manners during the comp.   
 
 There where many people at the resort that where not affiliated with the comp and a campground full of people just down the road yet I was willing to give benefit of doubt right up to the point of accusations of theft by one of the participants at which point it bacame odvuos the fella was just looking for a hug and could not find one.
  If he is there next yer I would be willing to give him a hug so he feels better....;)
 

Doug Thorpe

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Re: Critque of the last loch style competition.
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2014, 04:43:26 PM »
I took a little different approach to my comments, and decided to run numbers a bit.

Here is my whole post, including a quoted bit from a guy (a bit long I must admit)

"I don't know if you did it for this one but, maybe, the next one, wherever you decide to do it, throw the facts out there about the competition coming to whatever lake it is. Use forums like this, and any other place you can. State the number of boats expected, and maybe even add a few more to the count. There are some people out there that are fishing during the week cause they really don't enjoy the long weekend kinda thingy. If they "know" this kinda thing is gonna happen, they then can chose not to go, like a lot of us during long weekends.

Just a suggestion."
Ah but when FlyBC has the Fish in does someone post on the following:
Fishing with Rod
Washington Fly Fishers
Innovative Fly Fisher
Or any other of the forums that are relevant to fishing lakes?

Also these sessions were on Thursday June 19th. It is:
After Fathers Day weekend
Between Long weekends
Not a Friday, Saturday, Sunday, or Monday.

Now keep in mind that the Tunkwa Lake is 296 ha. To break it down into Angler days per ha from the two comp sessions alone is 0.41 angler days per ha.

When compared to Roche Lake (132 ha) from before this year I got a number of 0.62 angler days per hectare.

Now what I did to come up with both numbers is.

Tunkwa (http://www.bcadventure.com/adventure/explore/high_country/logan/tunkwa.htm)
60 anglers for the comp. 1 angler day=3 hour session. 2 sessions a day = 120 angler days. Tunkwa is 296 ha so naturally 120/296=0.41 angler days/ha

Roche (bit harder)
29,665 anglers day a year (estimated)/ 365 days a year = 81.27 angler days. Roche is 132 ha so 81.7/132=0.62 angler days/ha

So in order to bring this together, in order for the comp day on Tunkwa to match an average pre winter kill "day" on Roche there would have to have been 183 angler days on the Thursday to bring it up to 0.62 angler days.

Now keep in mind this was assuming people where fishing Roche 365 days a year, but as I can not statistically break it down on a per day basis I used a year to break down angler days/day.


And also on a side note. There are benefits and disadvantages to having the competition on all private waters.
Here are two, one on each side.

A benefit to the competition does not interfere with the public access fisheries.
A disadvantage is FFSBC loses revenue that goes towards the provincial stocking program.
I chase the allure of standing in a river, casting dries in an attempt to watch that beast come up and take my fly.  Then I usually blow it by setting the hook to soon....

Matthew Dirksen

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Re: Critque of the last loch style competition.
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2014, 07:24:26 PM »
LIFE IS TOO SHORT TO LIVE MAD SO SUCK IT UP AND BE THANKFUL THAT YOU ARE ON THE WATER NOT AT WORK! ;) :)

Noah Kelly

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Re: Critque of the last loch style competition.
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2014, 07:34:44 PM »
In British Columbia, about 800 lakes and streams are stocked annually with over eight million trout, char, and kokanee produced from the five facilities operated by the Freshwater Fisheries Society of BC.

Using one lake, one day, mid week for a Charitable competition raising $30K for Children's hospital seems like a no brainer.
This guy hit it on the head, when they sum it up like this i dont understand how there could be a problem

Randy Paskall

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Re: Critque of the last loch style competition.
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2014, 10:00:48 PM »
This is a heads up to what competition angling is viewed as by the general public. It's you guys' job to have it look better in the very same public eye and if you wish to DO so you must take the high road.
This includes being big about things like this.

heard the story. know both the guys both are right and both are wrong. one was vindictive.

Both need to get their man shorts on and get over it. one for thinking he owns the joint, and the other for comp angling's sake - no matter what the situation is on a public lake you should be giving way to an anchored craft.

In fernie I had a guy SWIM and ROLL right through my beat in a wet suit with a snorkel - I got 10 minutes rest time. "thanks"  Guess I should have glared at him. I didn't outwardly I smiled as I am a rep of comp angling I bow to his right to use the resource as a tax payer as he sees fit whenever he sees fit. being a comp angler is being a proponent of that. as a competitor you are bound to give way - OR be viewed as a plague on the fishing world at large then it's 'you vs them' til the end of time.

capice?


Maybe Johnny should have shot the deer than ran through his beat last year? (lol!!)
Sorry, but you weren't catching that fish anyway.....

Randy Paskall

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Re: Critque of the last loch style competition.
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2014, 10:26:37 PM »
One more thing. Don't think for a second that there aren't members of that board viewing this one. Those who's opinions you'd like very much to be in favor of comp angling or at least not hate it.
Sorry, but you weren't catching that fish anyway.....

Randy Paskall

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Re: Critque of the last loch style competition.
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2014, 11:29:53 PM »
The original poster is not prone to exaggeration and would certainly know the difference between a competitive and recreational angler. I also expect that he would not be upset by the number of boats since he is more than familiar with fishing in crowded conditions.
Why were boats an outboard exceeding the Tunkwa 10hp limit allowed to compete?


How the hell do YOU know that? We are friends, I eat dinner with the guy here and there, he calls me for advice on both fishing opportunities as well as things for his home. Funny your name never comes up in conversation. lol
The guy in the anchored craft is as prone to exaggeration as the next guy, he's a great fisherman not a saint. He was pi$$ed off and made a post saying things he shouldn't have been.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2014, 06:55:34 AM by Randy Paskall »
Sorry, but you weren't catching that fish anyway.....

Jim Trewin

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Re: Critque of the last loch style competition.
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2014, 05:27:46 AM »
Quote "One more thing. Don't think for a second that there aren't members of that board viewing this one. Those who's opinions you'd like very much to be in favor of comp angling or at least not hate it"

 Your rights, his rights, my rights, all spoken with the passion that is fly fishing and human nature.  You are right people are watching and fortunately the People you are speaking of did not get to where they are by chance.  They are intelagent people that worked hard to get there and understand numbers and human nature.   It is not uncommon during an event like this for even the most experience and talented angler to make a mistake or misjudge a drift path or get slapped with a wind change.   When this happens it is also not uncommon when this happens that dumb luck puts you right in the path of the one person in the whole lake that is going to take exception to it on one form or another.
  The fact that this is the first incedent of this kind in four years speaks very highly of the organizers and the participants and those you speak of will also look at that.

My offer of a hug still stands or if preferred a jigger of scotch and some good stories around the campfire would suffice then I offer that as well.

Hey look---a squirrel...;)