Author Topic: Loch style leaders  (Read 2834 times)

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John Wilkinson

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Loch style leaders
« on: May 02, 2013, 10:06:48 AM »
Mono vs Floro?

I tried both and found mono to be less flimsy therefor less knots or rats nest's. The floro gives you more invisibility and faster sink rate but I found it to tangle up easier.
What are your thoughts or experiences with these two?

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Chris Puchniak

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Re: Loch style leaders
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2013, 10:50:39 AM »
Good topic Johnny.

Flouro all the way, either 3x or 2x (8 vs 10#).

A lot of guys like the 10# Seaguar product as it is stiffer and does as you suggest - tangle less.  I like it myself as well, but in either 8# or 10#.  But my main preference is Flouroflex plus 3x 8.5# as I think it blends stiffness and suppleness adequately well for me.  But I am very happy using the Seaguar as well.

I think there is an importance in finding a mono (either FC or Nylon) that suits your stiffness.  But the above are my thoughts.

When we are doing multiple flies, I find I have to accept the odd tangle.  I don't think even the best casters can avoid it - not to mention getting those tangles when landing a fish, which is often where I'll find a knot-up.  Managing your leader so you have minimal wasted time gets very important in a comp.  Or any time for that matter, unless you like undoing knots.

That is also one reason why I like to carry a pair (at least) of spare leader rigs tied and ready to go (on leader minders) in case my first cast tangles too poorly.  Often times knowing you have them there as a backup helps you stay mentally focused on the fishing so well that you're not worried about tangles... and when you're not worrying about getting tangles, strangely you often tend to get fewer of them.  It helps me anyways.
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Marc Bilan

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Re: Loch style leaders
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2013, 02:29:43 PM »
Flouro for stillwaters.  Seaguar InvisX for me at the moment, but I'd love to try Stroft sometime.

Chris Puchniak

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Re: Loch style leaders
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2013, 03:07:16 PM »
The Invisix is a great product.

Not that we in BC get much practise on dropper setups for stillwaters, but in addition to Johnny's question with respect to leader material (as this affects action and tangles):

What dropper lengths due you find best?

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Peter Huyghebaert

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Re: Loch style leaders
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2013, 06:04:12 PM »
My favourite is Orvis Mirage (fluoro). 2x is 11.4lb, 3x is 9.2 lb, 4x is 7lb, it is the strongest of all the fluorocarbons by diameter.  It is fairly stiff and has good knot strength if you lubricate it and snug it up gently (hope Randy doesn't read this).   ;D  My bob fly is tied on a short (6") dropper - since I seldom change it and the dropper is about 10", good for 2-3 changes.
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John Wilkinson

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Re: Loch style leaders
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2013, 06:25:47 PM »
I usually have my droppers around 10" but I wonder if shorter would be better cause the fly might stay off the main line?

Hmmmm...
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Peter Huyghebaert

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Re: Loch style leaders
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2013, 07:12:17 PM »
John,  I usually have a small, weighted fly on the dropper to avoid twisting problems.  I seldom, if ever, use a weighted fly on the bob, hence the short dropper.
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Alex Berger

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Re: Loch style leaders
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2013, 11:31:54 PM »
Good morning John and  a very good topic indeed!    I don't want my leaders to sink wit the exception of the tippet that  I like for it to break the water film (for that i rob it with mud and then wash it to remove the grease)

Admit that I use Fluorocarbon from time to time for the tippet material but didn't detect all such great difference.  Fluorocarbon are the result of strong marketing champagne to make us spend more money.
I had tie all my leaders and for that my favorite brands are:

Umpqua for the butt section as it provides suppleness and more authority in delivery.
Maxima Chameleaon or Evergreen for the mid-section.
Grand Max Riverege or Orvis Mirage for the final tippet.
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Aaron Laing

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Re: Loch style leaders
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2013, 11:38:01 AM »
I have this argument a lot with various people, but I'm generally with Alex on this one with a few exceptions.

I use a short (9') tapered mono 3x or 2x leader and stiff spinning fluorocarbon below with droppers starting at the 10' mark--minimum 6lb but sometimes 8lb. My droppers are usually between 6" and 10" all tied using water knots--I like them shorter, but it doesn't give you much material to work with when changing flies. I replace the entire leader set up after each session, or sometimes just the fluoro if the mono is still in good shape and I haven't cut it back too far with previous changes.

I find that this set-up turns over multi-fly rigs without tangling and for that I'm willing to forego a little extra sink time--i.e. loss of sinking rate 1-2 seconds per cast vs. tangle of leader 5-15 minutes... the math works for me.

Aaron
« Last Edit: May 03, 2013, 11:42:51 AM by Aaron Laing »
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Todd Oishi

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Re: Loch style leaders
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2013, 09:32:30 AM »
Fluorocarbon is my preferred leader for 100% of my subsurface presentations...

My typical leader consists of 15-18 feet of level diameter fluorocarbon leader material (the length depends upon the flies and technique), with 8-10 inch tags (of the same diameter) tied onto the main leader with triple surgeons knots. I rarely experience tangles or wind knots, as I adapt my casting form to a more open loop style of casting. Super long cats aren't necessarily required with loch-style fishing, as the wind blows you to your targeted area (and fish), while actiuvely feeding fish tend to move upwind against the currents (much like a river) that are created by the forces of the wind and its interaction with the surface of the water.

I only use "mono" (nylon or copolymers) leaders for dries or emergers that are being worked on or within the surface film of the water...
For me, the quality of a trout is not measured in inches or pounds, but rather by the journey and circumstances that allowed our paths to cross...